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About the guest
James Davis is the Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of The TSP Advisory, with over 15 years of experience in the Technology Services Industry across the Asia-Pacific region. He is recognized as the longest-tenured coach and consultant in APAC, specializing in guiding Technology Solutions Partners and Managed Service Providers through strategic growth and industry transformation. Learn more about James on his expert page
Summary
In this **bonus** episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Amy Springer welcomes James Davis from The TSP Advisory to discuss the evolving roles and responsibilities within the Technology Services industry.
James shares insights on the transformation of Managed Services Providers (MSPs), Systems Integrators (SIs), and Value Added Resellers (VARs) as they adapt to new business models and client needs. He emphasizes the importance of organizational design in navigating growth challenges and optimizing team structures.
The conversation highlights the distinct characteristics of each model, the necessity for clear roles and responsibilities, and the financial metrics that guide successful operations. James also addresses common pain points that organizations face during periods of change and the value of a strategic, top-down approach to org design. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on how to foster a healthy organizational culture by aligning team structures with business objectives, ultimately leading to improved performance and profitability.
Tune in for practical advice and thought-provoking discussions on the future of organizational design in the TSP industry.
Show Notes
The TSP Advisory - https://thetspadvisory.com/
Episode summary - COMING SOON
Transcript
[00:00:00] Amy Springer: Welcome to the Org Design Podcast. Today's episode is a little bit different. It's a special episode. We are focusing on a specific industry use case and to help us with that conversation today, James Davis from The TSP Advisory has joined us. James, tell us about the industry you've worked in, the industry you now advise for, and what problem do they solve?
[00:00:24] James Davis: Thanks for having me, Amy. So I'm focused in on the Technology Services industry. So that's the traditional Managed Services Providers, the Systems Integrators, the Value Added Resellers and the modern transformation into a Technology Solutions Partner. And so this is all about servicing end clients through implementing and managing different types of technology and challenges that are really facing this industry at the moment is that transformation from our traditional business models into that modern way of needing to operate and changing that business model and delivering different things to our clients to meet their needs, and part of the industry is looking at exit. So there's, there's consolidation that's going on. So there's a lot of different things that are changing the dynamics of all design that are happening. That's a really exciting time and should be a fun podcast.
[00:01:27] Amy Springer: So how did the model historically work? So if you could give me a pretend example of what a client might look like for you and then who they tend to serve?
[00:01:37] James Davis: And I know I'm talking about three traditional models here, so I'll give a really quick summary of each one. So, MSP, they were born from fixing broken things. They were the guys that got some desktops, we've got a network environment, something's broken, we need someone to come in and fix it. So they've been sort of that traditional help desk support model.
[00:02:00] Amy Springer: for other companies and have an office, they have to provide tools for their teams.
[00:02:07] James Davis: Correct. So everyone else that may listen to this, they probably have some form of that sort of support. The SI, the Systems Integrator, they're, they're traditionally been a project led engagement, so that more of that professional services consulting and project delivery, and they function that way, so a bit more like a construction company than a, an ongoing sort of service.
[00:02:32] Amy Springer: So would that be like we're bringing in a new system and it needs a partner to make it happen?
[00:02:39] James Davis: perfect.
[00:02:40] Amy Springer: Such a big project. Yeah.
[00:02:42] James Davis: Perfect example, we might be doing a SAP implementation or a new accounting package or specialised networking warehouses or something like that. The final one is a Value Added Reseller, the VAR. And their traditional model has been selling products. So they're more of a sales led organization. They've traditionally sold to mid market and enterprise clients, their hardware. They procure the monitors and the desktops and the servers and all of that through that Value Added Reseller. So the very distinct sort of legacies that they're coming from and the evolution that's happening is into that technology solutions partner. While there's still similarities where there's a technology brokerage, which is sort of that modern VAR, the SI is becoming much more of a specialist that requires a channel model that works with partners rather than so much direct, like the past, that MSP is either needing to grow and scale and be a scale provider, or they're becoming more boutique and they're becoming more of an advisory firm first that leverages technology to solve end clients problems. And so they vary, while they're similar, they're becoming very different. So that's where we start getting in those org design challenges around those traditional models and how they're structured and how these new models, while similar, the roles and responsibilities are changing, the structure of the teams are changing, the ratios of how to actually scale and grow are changing as well to maintain margins and profitability, and so that's where org design really starts to come into this conversation.
[00:04:31] Amy Springer: So I can imagine that when you're, so you're an advisor to these companies in this industry. I can imagine when they approach you, they haven't rocked up and said, "Hey James, I've got an org design problem". I'd love to understand what are the problems that they've approached you with, you've covered that a little bit but maybe you could be, give some more examples, but then I'd love to know how you've come along and eventually been working on that project and thought, "Hmm, there's definitely some org design elements that are showing up here".
[00:05:06] James Davis: Traditionally when I often talk about this, that I've been talking a lot about that transformation. And a lot of people aren't really articulating it, but traditionally I've had the other side of the optimization of we've got this, we've reached a certain size, and now we, we, we need to understand what's the next sort of curve jump.
How do we go from a 20 person organization into a 30 person organization? What does that look like? when it's sort of been on that linear journey the, the partners that I have worked with. Realise there's, there's growth, growing pains that they need to, need to deal with, and they often know that is the people structure side. Just sort of naturally, they might not be able to articulate why, it's usually they will articulate other symptoms that's going on. Maybe all of a sudden they've got more leaders, so now the communications breaking down or they've actually got departments now, so that cross functionality isn't happening. The silos are being, are being built, but in this sort of transformation side, it's more that they don't, don't necessarily have a vision and a strategy yet of what the future is that they can articulate, and so that's usually where I start with that engagement in The TSP Advisory is to talk to them about what are they sensing and feeling?
What do they want to do in that sort of next decade horizon? Let's articulate that, and then, and then one of the natural things to come out of it is, I will say, well, actually, we need to sort of map this organization out about what it looks like. So that includes roles and responsibilities obviously, the team's departments that is sort of needed and then what the structures would look like in those. But then also the nomenclature of those, those different teams to treat them differently to how, say, a traditional team of, say, marketing has a connotation compared to when you talk about a go to market team. They're very, they're very different. People have very different senses of what you're talking about, what that means, what the purpose is, and it often starts from that sort of high level to Get the juices flowing.
[00:07:20] Amy Springer: Yeah, so what does that at a high level structure, thinking through those departments, let's get into specifics, what are some that show up in the TSP industry typically,
[00:07:31] James Davis: I am,
[00:07:31] Amy Springer: or that you're seeing a shift to, are we in a blended model at the moment,
[00:07:36] James Davis: yeah, we're definitely in that transition phase. So if I'll start sort of the traditional first of, of how we've typically broken down technology services businesses. In the SIs and MSPs, they've been very service focused. So the core of their business has always been focused on the service delivery. In a traditional MSP, you're typically splitting them up by what would be called a help desk- service desk team department. There would be a shared services area, and then then you'd have your professional services and then wrapped around that, depending on size, you'd have different variations of your finance, and procurement and then your sales teams.
We don't traditionally see HR departments in technology services businesses. You don't really
[00:08:28] Amy Springer: would they outsource or would it be an accountability for one member of the company?
[00:08:34] James Davis: often it's not even outsourced. I'd almost say it's been traditionally ignored as a as a function. It's, always been sort of that, you only get to that point when you're going to fair work down here in Australia, kind of, kind of mentality. it's been quite, quite a loose, quite a loose thing. So it's been, been probably like you said attributed to someone to do as part of their role. But it's not really really been
[00:09:02] Amy Springer: By someone's putting together contracts, like employment contracts, there's someone doing that, but not much else.
[00:09:08] James Davis: Correct.
[00:09:08] Amy Springer: Gotcha.
[00:09:09] James Davis: the best way to frame it up. And, and so then you've got like the sales team. And then that's typically been, it's not really necessarily a sales team. It's usually an account management team. That's focused on their existing businesses. and in an SI, fairly similar, they don't typically have a proper help desk, service desk. So they have more, they just have more resources in the professional services. And they typically have a PMO, the project management office. And then again, they've got the, the business services wrapped around it, like the finance and procurement side. Then they've traditionally got a more sales driven than account management driven because they're having to go chase projects a lot more. So, they've often got a lot more business development managers.
And then the VAR is very different. They're sales led organizations. So, they've typically got BDM's, often called account executives, how they want to frame it, but basically hunters going after transaction after transaction, then they'll have quite a large procurement team, then the sort of services team is quite small when they, when they have them, they're often leveraging partners or something else and only delivering some core stuff. Again, they don't typically have a help desk, finance department sort of, smaller than the procurement because the procurement's doing most of what would typically be taken up by other departments. So that's our sort of traditional legacy.
[00:10:39] Amy Springer: They're all very functional.
[00:10:41] James Davis: Yeah.
[00:10:41] Amy Springer: People doing the same function , sit together in a team.
[00:10:47] James Davis: Yeah, and it just, again, it depends on scale on how mixed those functions become, like in a smaller organization, you might have someone that's doing finance, procurement, the HR, sales support kind of roles, functions and responsibilities, one wearing one hat. then then the sales team might be smaller, and they might be doing BDM, account management, sales support, all in one role and the typical sort of smaller, medium sized business. But it's very, it's very driven by their core revenue generating mechanisms. So again, the MSP is driven by the support and ongoing management, SI driven by the projects and the VAR is driven by the, the, the sales, and procurement side. So that, really dictates the amount of people that are in those departments and functions, and then how they have their whole culture works just from that sort of mentality of how they're built.
[00:11:46] Amy Springer: And would drive which, as they grew, as you said, which one got resources first, and those positions became much clear cut with one role rather than carrying multiple roles, multiple hats.
[00:12:01] James Davis: correct. With volume comes speciality. So, as we talk about that transformation into the technology solutions partner what I'm, what I'm doing, because it's, it's sort of new ground, it's not, It's not necessarily brand new ground because, we've done this in the different business models before, other industries have advisory practices.
So I'm usually helping them start from the high level of understanding that what is that identity of the business. What's our culture? What's our, what are our core drivers? And then how we split it out. So I typically split it out into a few categories at a high level. It's the, the business services, which is that internal finance, HR, procurement type side that we were talking about before, but we're giving it a overarching theme, because in these themes, what we're trying to do is actually align leadership through those themes, because one of the biggest challenges in our industry is we don't have the leadership talent with enough experience.
There's a lot of good people, but they're often quite young. We've got this generational gap where a lot of the founders of the traditional businesses are in their fifties plus, and then a lot of their leaders are late twenties to mid thirties. There's not many people in the late thirties and forties and fifties that are actually still in this sort of SMB technology services industry left. Focus and theming is important because each one of these, areas that I go through in a minute, all have different drivers or have different metrics or have different people and skills, et cetera, that need to be framed up a certain way, because a lot of our businesses don't have the operational maturity. The industry has only been around, 30, 40 years at most, but a lot of these business in general, have only been running at max 15, 20 years. So it's not like the, it's not like an accounting field where they've been established for years. They've got practices that have been well defined for a 150 years type of thing, and it's legislated. We're not a professionalized industry. So everything we're sort of up on the fly.
[00:14:21] Amy Springer: You did mention the values, was it, the values that you use to help define the structure. Is that typically the same for each client, or do you find each client you're working with has a slightly different set, and could you give us an example?
[00:14:38] James Davis: Yeah. The identity is a bit different. So you can use those sort of business models. So I talked around before technology broker opposed to a scaled partner. Again, I have very different focuses. While there's some similarities, they're both very sales driven, the technology broker has a lot less need on a service department. They're not really servicing a whole lot compared to a scaled where their core revenue is on that volume of scale of delivering services. And so, understanding that, long term strategic objective and being able to frame that into that vision and that identity, then starts helping them know that core of their business. You know, like what, what is the core drivers what are we really, what are we really is our core and then wrapping around the support in the different ways. And then obviously size as an attribute plays a big part into what's right. how to do this. Regions, growth rates, all that kind of attributes thing come into that sort of long term, long term planning dictate what we're what we're doing differently for that, for that you need business.
There's a lot of similarities by types, but there is a lot of nuance when you start start getting into, especially when you are working with a business that's already established and has people because you've already got. Resources there in place. It's very different than when you just do this for in theory, or for a startup to go, what, what's next you're, you're playing with, "what capabilities do we already have?, what are we trying to move to? And what are the phases in between going to get us there?", Because it's never, in SMB, never a light switch. You can't just make 50 percent of your people redundant, hire 50 percent back in and reshape your business overnight.
You can't make such big and dramatic moves in an SMB like you would in that corporate and enterprise sort of manner. So it's a, it's a very nuanced field when you start getting, getting into the nitty gritty, but it also just, because I typically work with Founders of these businesses, it really helps them go through the story of, people, the identity, where are we heading and why are we making these decisions, and makes it very easy for them to drive it and it gets sort of inbuilt to the culture, and as part of that transformation journey that starts to become a story.
[00:17:21] Amy Springer: it sounds like across all TSPs, there's elements that are repeatable. You've got roles that show up across the board. You've maybe got some smaller team sizes that show up across the board, but for an individual organization, the way you use those pieces to build up the whole company is going to show up differently based on their story, where they're at, where they're headed.
[00:17:45] James Davis: Yes. 100%. And that's where that sort of going back to the those areas that I'll describe in a minute. That's sort of the building blocks to explain the structure and functions of a, a TSP, a lot of SMBs don't, don't actually stop to think about what their structure of their business is, it's just, it is what it is and they've, they just keep growing and at some point, like I said, they hit at that point where, "oh, there's growing pains, maybe we need to look at something different". And some people just get it naturally, right? Some people fumble along. Some people guess and get it wrong. people try and leave it as is, as long as possible. And hang on to what, what's happened in the past. so reframe with, areas. So like business I was talking about, call them client services, but ultimately it's the sales and marketing side. It's our service delivery management. It's our account management, BDMs, marketing team, SDRs, those kinds of roles that are finding new logos, generating demand, servicing the accounts, making sure retention, increasing sales, all that kind of thing. The reason why I take, you call it client services, is typically in this industry, sales is a dirty word. Because all of the Founders are technical people, so they, they don't really want sales team. So they want people that are just there to help the clients, and so client services. Then you start getting into the delivery sides. And so I break it down into a couple. There's an advisory practice. Which is all about consulting, ongoing advice to the clients, assessments, governance, compliance type of actions. There's our support services, which is that more traditional service desk. But the reason why I don't call, try and not call it service desk anymore is our support services need to start changing. Start enabling people. We've been very reactive in the past. Technology is changing. So we're actually having to adapt what we're doing for clients because of their needs. And so it's going to, it's going to change quite significantly over the next few years.
We've got our project services, which are pretty obvious, PMO, professional services, implementations, etc. And then we've got our centralized services, which is our maintenance team, it's automation, it's the team we can use to leverage scale. And reduce and increase our margins by using technology very well to streamline practices and make sure we're maintaining standards in our client environment at scale. And then the final one is application services. So that's, that's starting to get into the DevOps, application development, the ERP, CRM type of implementations.
When you look at those different services arms, they all generate money differently. So they're generating their revenue in a different way, their cost bases are different, and the levers and key metrics that they're tracking are all very different. Traditionally, even though we might have these sort of separate departments, we have often meshed them together and had too much overlap and not accounted for these different types of ways. And so by just framing it up that way at a high level, we're then able to start having a conversation around, do we do this? Don't we do it? How are we doing it at this point? What type of resources and skills do we need? Here's the metrics and the, and the ratios that we use in these particular areas. And here's how that, here's how you manage profitability most importantly.
[00:21:46] Amy Springer: So you get to actually align your teams to not only the business model, but the operating model of that industry and really set some clear goals around it.
[00:21:59] James Davis: It's very powerful when we start from the top down. I've found most of the time, if I go back to talking how we sort of, how you asked me that question around, how do these issues usually come up, when we're trying to solve symptoms of a problem and then identify it's that growth pain and we need to restructure, it's It's usually band aid, it's not, it's usually done in that sort of reactive way of, we've grown to this certain size, let's just change like this now, problem solved, moved on, this sort of top down approach, it's tied with more purpose to the business, and, and has that sort of naming convention, and the detail behind it, to allow the teams to get behind it, and then actually, be able to plan the implementation the change, but also most importantly, implement the ongoing management and accountability rhythms based on industry best practices from that point. And that's, that's where, that's where business can really thrive at that point, because it's not just that knee jerk change of, it doesn't feel quite right. We often, because we're an established business, we're, we're splitting these two teams. This person's already a leader of one, and this person needs a fancy title, so we'll just do it that way. This is actually, this often forces people to actually plan this out without having names on a page in the first place, and that starts to open up a lot healthier conversations, and then enables that transformation to happen better and take people on the journey.
[00:23:37] Amy Springer: Yeah, so there's the band aid approach would be structural problem, stick some band aids on probably there's still that tie to the human that's actually in the seat, there's going to be history there and, and relationship. But you're saying, stop, step back, are the leadership team clear on who they are and where they're heading? And only then, let's look at the structure in the bigger picture, before you dive down into the details.
Do you find that leaders are really open to stepping back and having that conversation about the bigger picture? And do they have a, a spectrum of how much they've thought about it versus not thought about it?
[00:24:18] James Davis: I'll start with that one. I think most people haven't thought about it.
[00:24:22] Amy Springer: Interesting.
[00:24:23] James Davis: they've probably just, again, they just sense something's wrong, like that's, and until someone comes in and helps them articulate it, and then gives them that sort of framework to work against, then all of a sudden, the light bulbs start going off and go, "Oh, well, that's why we are having this problem".
[00:24:37] Amy Springer: Amazing.
[00:24:38] James Davis: Oh, that this would open up a different avenue of how to do something. And then they can have those conversations. Now that's, that's really the, I'd say that that sort of founder executive level will just get this sort of stuff. straight away and can detach themselves from it. when you start getting into the next layer of leadership and especially when we've got a lot of young people, they go straight to where am I on this old chart? It's that it's that challenge, they're very worried about themselves . And I, I wouldn't say I, especially in this space, it's very ever really maliciousness or true ego, but it's the lack of experience and maturity to step back and go, yeah, if things do need to change, let's work out what it looks like, then I'll find where I should go based on the structure of going, well, actually, I'd be a best fit and this is where my strengths hmm that's often my biggest challenges with that layer of leadership, to actually get them to just stop worrying about themselves. Worry about the structure, the roles and responsibilities, then we'll, then we'll find the right seat. And often when we do that, that's where they ended up actually with a lot more clarity, a lot more focus, a lot better results because they're not having to wear 20 different hats and it's vague and they don't, and they don't know what they're doing. This, but they need to, they need to go along with that journey and most do. When I do this kind of work, it's the, but some don't, some really, just really struggle with the lack of concreteness of starting from them and then where else do other people fit around them?
[00:26:16] Amy Springer: Yeah, so to help build that structure, build up those roles and responsibilities. I understand that different size organizations are going to have different ratios, but have you found that is a set, do you have a sense of a typical structure and a typical ratio of those different departments for TSP?
[00:26:36] James Davis: What I'll do, I'll start from the financial perspective. So there's some well trodden numbers of how technology business should be operating for best practice finance at a really high level. We should be running at about 50 percent gross profit after wages. So after our service delivery costs, we're making 50 percent of the revenue. There's some nuance in this, but I'll keep it very generic. Then there's typically, after that, we're expecting to spend 32 percent or less on total operating expenses as a percentage of revenue. So basically that means our SG&A costs. And so you can start to see ratios. know if we're just to keep this really simple, if we're only delivering service based businesses, service based revenue, well, 50 percent of our cost is going to be split between the tools that we use to do it and our labor. So it's typically gonna be something like 70 percent labour, 30 percent tool costs. All of a sudden we know of that doing a million dollars worth of revenue, we've got 500 grand to spend to deliver that. And of that 500 grand, we've got 70 percent of that cost is against wages. So all of a sudden we already know, The amount of people that we can have in that department it, and it typically ends up being when we break it down, the ratio is 2.5 to 3 times a person's salary is the amount of revenue that they generate. So when you look at a million dollars revenue, got an average tech that costs $100, 000, that means they're going to generate anywhere between $250k and $300,000, so for my brain, as I'm working this out, let's just say $250k. That means we can have four techs delivering that revenue and that, that helps us scale that side. There's, there's more nuance
[00:28:39] Amy Springer: Yep.
[00:28:39] James Davis: can break it down on what sort of delivery, but. Keep it simple.
[00:28:43] Amy Springer: Mm
[00:28:44] James Davis: With the breakdown on the SG&A, our sales general administration costs, there's a split. So we typically expect 21 percent of our revenue to go towards our G&A, general and administrative costs. That's our, our occupancy expenses, insurance, those kinds of business costs. Plus the, Our executive and administrative people. So that's all our finance, procurement people are in that, in that bucket on top of our executive. So we already, again, have a, have a ratio there to right size, the amount of people that we need. And that leaves over 11 percent for sales and marketing, and that's typically split 7 percent sales, 4 percent marketing. So again, just from that high level, those sort of areas that I was talking about, should automatically then have an easy starting point around a, around a budget for labor costs. And that scales up and down. It's an industry wide global best practice to then generate the levels of profitability that we need.
[00:30:03] Amy Springer: Yeah. Amazing. I know I'm a really visual learner, so I'll make sure we include in the show notes that drawn out on a piece of paper for people to have a look at. So that's the sort of high level budget distribution. Is there then a clear set of the types of positions that typically do make up then that team is there a fairly standard set of roles and responsibilities that then can be applied?
[00:30:31] James Davis: Yeah, there is. There's a core to each of these business models. So if I'll stick on the MSP, support focused business for a second. The majority of our revenues coming from the support services, so our recurring managed services. So that will, the majority of labor will then go into the service desk and the traditional shared services that's typically been five techs in support, one tech in the shared services, where often, there's a measurement that we use in the industry called endpoints per tech. And so typically, we're aiming for minimum of 300 endpoints per tech, for us to be servicing the right amount. There is a lot of nuance around that, but at a high level, that's sort of a general health indicator. And so, those two roles right there, you'll typically have levels of tech in the service desk, you'll have service coordinator, service manager, or team leader, depending on the type of business you've got, and then you'll have that sort of shared services engineer, NOC engineer, different, different sort of names, same sort of principles, and then you might have a project engineer or a project manager, project coordinator, again, depending on the size. Then you'll often have your account manager on the sales side, you'll have a owner, and then you might have an operations coordinator type person, and that's sort of the typical 10 person MSP.
As you scale up, that's when you start adding more roles in different places and depending on where the most revenue is, and that dictates that on the service side of those roles expanding. On the sales side, it really depends on the strategy of what the business is typically in this industry, the majority are owner led sales, so they don't typically need a BDM until they're nearly 10 million revenue at that point. Unless they're going after a hard and fast organic growth, most are still just account managers, but they might add like a sales support officer or something like that to support that team and generate the quotes and things like that. So those are the core. And then there's, then it comes to all the nuances and all the differences.
But most of them are templated, like when I'm working with someone. I've got a whole bunch of templates for those roles. And then we just refine based on the nuance in those particular clients, there's not really an industry standard. Like even if we go back to the levels of techs in a service desk, you can pretty much go to 10 different MSPs and they'll have different Standards at different expectations of what these are, but those are being refined through just natural maturity. Some more modern Technology Solution Partners leveraging the Sophia standard. That's like a global framework for, for skills. So that, that sort of stuff is coming in the professionalism and the standardization in the industry, which will make this easier.
[00:33:44] Amy Springer: Well, thanks so much, James. Is there any other thoughts that have popped in that you want to make sure we share before we wrap up?
[00:33:51] James Davis: I think more people just need to think, think about this a bit more and understand their identity of their business. And start to use the financial data and the ratios that we're talking about to actually make decisions. Far too many in the
[00:34:04] Amy Springer: So powerful. Yeah.
[00:34:04] James Davis: It is, it's it frames everything up much better to be data driven. And so many the industry are running too lean with margins, or they're overstaffed because they're not efficient. they don't have,
[00:34:21] Amy Springer: hmm.
[00:34:21] James Davis: have a reference. They're making very emotional when the industry is running at 6% EBITDA on average. And at any one time, 25 percent of the industry is running at break even or losing money. We're doing something wrong as an industry and a lot of it comes down to the way that we've got our people structured and how they're operating. So whole conversation around most of us aren't thinking about org design. It's actually one of the critical skeletons and the backbone of the business that creates the structure that everything else hangs off. And especially when you start wrapping around the roles and responsibilities, accountabilities and metrics, that's when the culture and everything else can can really flourish.
[00:35:09] Amy Springer: Yep. Sort of where the leadership comes to life. One of our other guests Lisa talks about the clarity break. So James, it sounds like you're encouraging all your TSP leaders to take that clarity break, step back, ask these questions, we'll provide the tools. But we'd love to see everyone taking that clarity break and really thinking about their org design in the TSP industry.
[00:35:33] James Davis: It's perfect time to do it. No better time than today.
[00:35:38] Amy Springer: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
[00:35:40] James Davis: Thanks for having me.
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